Ok all you sport Moms

[Angelia]

(I know there are a few of you over here...maybe beehive50 (Debi) , but really anyone can chime in) ~ I am looking for some quick & easy tips for taking good indoor action photos! I have been doing some experimenting with different settings & can get good action shots, but the lighting is what I am still trying to figure out. I attend a lot of sporting events for my kids & hubby, with a lot of them being indoors. I want to be able to "freeze the action" & have nice lighting also. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated!
Thanks!

[SAHMom]

I usually crank up the ISO to 1250-1600 to be able to get the shutter speeds where I need them to be. If you are some distance away, you can open up your aperture pretty wide too. And as always, shooting in RAW.

[beehive50]

Listen to Kim.

Seriously... I'm not joking. She takes awesome photos! And, I haven't actually had the opportunity to shoot indoors with my new camera (we're always outside on the soccer field!) so this was a great question, Angelia!

[deedeeO]

Originally Posted by SAHMom

I usually crank up the ISO to 1250-1600 to be able to get the shutter speeds where I need them to be. If you are some distance away, you can open up your aperture pretty wide too. And as always, shooting in RAW.

Like Kim and Debi noted, crank up the iso. I usually shoot in P or AV mode as well. Regarding white balance, shooting RAW will allow you to correct the lighting and the yellowish hue that you usually see from indoor sports shots. However, I'll admit to shooting in JPEG esp for sporting events just because of the number of shots that I take (300-600), so 2 things can be done. You can customize your white balance using a white card, or what I like to do is adjust the White balance shift/bracketing while using auto white balance. Also, make sure that your memory card has a write speed of 133x+ (80x will work to, but if shooting in continuous mode, the faster the write speed of your card, the faster the images will write to your card). Avoid flash if possible this will down your camera as well, but if you do have to use it, diffuse it. (If Gary Fong is out of budget, tissue paper will work too!!). Regarding your settings: use center metering focusing and AI Servo for focusing parameters. Also, if you can, use a lens with a f/2.8 or lower. Sometimes indoors you can get buy with a 85 f/1.8, depending on your distance from the subjects.....or a 70-200mm f/2.8..... these L lens can be rented for great prices, esp. if it is an important sporting event.

[beehive50]

Originally Posted by DeedeeO

Like Kim and Debi noted, crank up the iso. I usually shoot in P or AV mode as well. Regarding white balance, shooting RAW will allow you to correct the lighting and the yellowish hue that you usually see from indoor sports shots. However, I'll admit to shooting in JPEG esp for sporting events just because of the number of shots that I take (300-600), so 2 things can be done. You can customize your white balance using a white card, or what I like to do is adjust the White balance shift/bracketing while using auto white balance. Also, make sure that your memory card has a write speed of 133x+ (80x will work to, but if shooting in continuous mode, the faster the write speed of your card, the faster the images will write to your card). Avoid flash if possible this will down your camera as well, but if you do have to use it, diffuse it. (If Gary Fong is out of budget, tissue paper will work too!!). Regarding your settings: use center metering focusing and AI Servo for focusing parameters. Also, if you can, use a lens with a f/2.8 or lower. Sometimes indoors you can get buy with a 85 f/1.8, depending on your distance from the subjects.....or a 70-200mm f/2.8..... these L lens can be rented for great prices, esp. if it is an important sporting event.

OMG... great information!!! (And, welcome to DD... I see you've posted 3 times! )

Couple of things that are new to me (OK, ALOT is new to me, but... )...

...about the card speed. I never thought of that mattering... guess I should check mine. I take mostly outdoors shots (soccer) and have noticed the last two weekends, that when continuous shooting, my first few shots are in focus and the next few are out of focus. Could that be because they're just not writing to the card fast enough?

And the metering... the terms you've used aren't foreign to me, but they sure make me think I need to go back and read my manual and figure them out! Geesh... there sure is alot to this photography thing! LOL

Thanks for helping out! Much appreciated!

[Angelia]

Thanks for all of the info girls!

I have read the manual (a few times ) & have been trying different settings...I do like how my pictures have been turning out using the following:

TV mode
ISO set at 1600
AF set to AI Servo
White balance set at Fluorescent light
Cranking up the shutter speed
...but they do seem a little dark to me, so yes I have turned the built-in flash on to see if it makes a difference, but by doing so the max my shutter speed will go is 1/200, & I have read that the faster the shutter speed the better it will "freeze the action".

My Metering mode is set at Evaluative metering, so I think I will change that to Centered, and I will also find out what the write speed on my memory card is. As far as shooting in RAW, I have never tried it yet, but I too take lots & lots of photos at all the games, but maybe I will give it a try just to see the results.

Thanks again for all your input, I really am determined to keep my new camera out of the Automatic mode...and so far, so good!

[SAHMom]

Angelia,
I think you'd probably get better results using AV mode, setting your aperture as wide as it will go and then just keep an eye on the shutter speed and bump up the ISO accordingly. They are probably dark because to keep your shutter speed up where you set it, it gets to as wide as it goes and cannot open further, so you just aren't getting proper exposure. In AV mode, it'll just keep lowering your shutter speed to let light in and you can notice that more easily and then bump up the ISO.

Sorry if I'm not making sense.. baby in lap... LOL

As far as the flash, I doubt that it will be powerful enough to reach the action (the flash in normal settings is enough to freeze the action even with lower shutter speeds). 1/200 should be fast enough to freeze the action.

eta: I'm definitely not an expert on indoor sports photography, but just what works when shooting indoor volleyball and basketball of my kids.

[Angelia]

Thanks for some more input Kim, I really appreciate it!

I just got my new camera a few weeks ago, so I am pretty new to all the specifics...lots of info to process! But like I said earlier, I am determined to learn how to be creative with it!

That's exactly what I have been shooting indoors...volleyball & basketball...so for the next game I am going to try your suggestions.

And by the way...I have seen your photography skills & they are awesome!

Thanks again & wish me luck!

[sam ellis]

Ok so here's my take on sports photography shooting ( and I have done a bit )

Flash doesn't help you cos the camera flash cannot flash at your same rate that your camera can ( eg 5 frames a second) so it generally won't take in that way !

Pumping the ISO is an obvious solution and will work for you - Kim don't you find tho, at such high ISO your pics are grainy ( I find over 800 grainy on NIKON D200)

The other thing, as suggested, is to get a very fast 2.8 - 200mm or 300mm lense. Contact your bank manager first - or make your husand REALLY owe you something. )

Indoor lighting does suck but the above two things are really the only way to win !

Debi - the out of focus thing has nothing to do with speed of the writing of the card. it is because the "al servo" hasn't caught up with play - and as the subjects are moving the focus point is constantly chnaging. Try and take a whole series of a static item and you won't have any focus issues ! there is no solution I can think of for this. Are you holding your finger down on the shutter all the time (with no release) during the burst of frames? cos if you are it MAY be that the camera is now having to refocus again and that's where it happening.

hope I make sense.

[sam ellis]

oh PS.

the reason the camera only goes to 200th when you have the flash on is because of a thing called flash sync.

this is the leaf shutter in a camera closes would be too fast for the flash if it was any higher and you would land up with a portion of your photo blacked out ( depending where the shutter is!) you could do this in manual and each camera has a HIGHEST speed for flash sync that you have to adhere to !

[SAHMom]

Sam,
I'm finding my D300 to be very forgiving with high ISOs. The D70s would be terribly grainy at anything over 400 ISO... LOL
Obviously, there is grain in the shadows, but I'm willing to put up with the grain to get the shot.
These are using my 85mm 1.8, 1/200, f/2, and 1250 ISO (Billy is a 4th grader being allowed to play on the B team that is normally just 5th & 6th graders, so he doesn't get a whole lot of play time just yet... so I don't have a lot of shots)

[beehive50]

Originally Posted by sam ellis

Debi - the out of focus thing has nothing to do with speed of the writing of the card. it is because the "al servo" hasn't caught up with play - and as the subjects are moving the focus point is constantly chnaging. Try and take a whole series of a static item and you won't have any focus issues ! there is no solution I can think of for this. Are you holding your finger down on the shutter all the time (with no release) during the burst of frames? cos if you are it MAY be that the camera is now having to refocus again and that's where it happening. hope I make sense.

OK... so my card's good! And, yes... I'm just holding the shutter down the whole time. Should I only do a few and then refocus? (Yes, I'm a bit confused, too! )

Originally Posted by SAHMom

These are using my 85mm 1.8, 1/200, f/2, and 1250 ISO

No zoom???? I'm amazed, Kim! Think I need another lens! Great shots, BTW!

[Angelia]

Ok, yeah...my photos aren't looking too good to me now that I have seen yours Kim!

I will take all of your advice & do some more playing during my daughters next game. I am pretty new to all of this technical stuff, so I appreciate all of your advice.

And Sam,

The other thing, as suggested, is to get a very fast 2.8 - 200mm or 300mm lense. Contact your bank manager first - or make your husand REALLY owe you something. )

too funny!

[HeidiKnight]

Kim, my finger has been on the mouse all week - hovering over the "buy it" button at B&H - you might have just pushed me over the edge. I have a D300 sitting in my cart and after everything I have read, I really, really want it! No, I need it! Haha, well that part isn't quite true, but I would love it and be in 7th heaven. The D3 is well out of my price range but I think I can justify the 300 because of my business.

[Melissa6169]

Originally Posted by HeidiKnight

Kim, my finger has been on the mouse all week - hovering over the "buy it" button at B&H - you might have just pushed me over the edge. I have a D300 sitting in my cart and after everything I have read, I really, really want it! No, I need it! Haha, well that part isn't quite true, but I would love it and be in 7th heaven. The D3 is well out of my price range but I think I can justify the 300 because of my business.

Heidi,
You could always think of it this way, you'll make up for it (moneywise), with all the cool new photos you'll be taking for your clients!! So yes, technically you "need" it to make your business more profitable!
(that's the accountant in me)

Keep us posted

[SAHMom]

If I can ever so gently give you the nudge... you are going to be amazed and wonder why you waited when you see the difference between the D70 and D300. Just the high ISO performance alone is amazing. The in-camera meter is much more accurate as well (I tested the two side by side and the D70 consistently underexposed by 2/3 stop, D300, spot on). The auto white balance is just about flawless too. As you can tell, I'm quite pleased! LOL I was back and forth with contemplating the D3, but there wasn't enough to justify the price tag (and plus they were, and maybe still are, super hard to find).

[HeidiKnight]

The main perk I like about the D3 is that you can use 2 CF cards at once. But I don't necessarily need a full frame sensor or any of that jazz right now. Plus, the $4900 price tag scares me! I want to feel like I can upgrade again in 5 years, maybe then to the professional grade version if the business is doing well enough and the camera is enough better.

I am still considering it. My husband and I just put ourselves on a very tight budget but I still may get it and be extra good on everything else for a while. Problem is, I also want a 50mm f1.4 AND a softbox AND......

I know that I won't regret the purchase - my D70 is insufficient for my photo business (and for me personally) I want more than 6.2 megapixels for one thing. And the graininess when you get above ISO 200 is unacceptable. And yes, the fact that the meter is so far off is another annoyance I've learned to compensate for. The colors on the D300 look amazing even compared to the 200. Yes, it is time. I just have to bite the bullet. I saw it for around $1000 but it is gray market so I'll probably end up paying the full $1700 just to be sure I don't get taken for a ride. The D70 will be my backup camera - every pro needs that, right?

[sam ellis]

My bag has the d200 as my main camera and the d70 as backup and in fcat I use both concurrerntly when I want long zoom and a wider angle on !

~KIM I am super duper impressed with the high ISO ! wowowowowowo have you done any noise reduction on it or is this almost SOTC ? that is amazing - I do find the d200 very grainy over about 500 - 600 iso.

so - I envy you - green jowls quivering. but you know I saw it in singapore - right before I got myself ripped off on a lense I didint know anything about and landed up paying twice the price cos I had not done the research

From the d200 to the d300 I think I have to wait. I will go for the D400 or D500 cos really you cannot simply justify keeping up ! but hold on I could have gotten the body for the price I was just ripped off grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[HeidiKnight]

I still haven't ordered it. I wonder if the price will go down if I wait a few more months.

[elliottsurf2]

Wow, this is the area that I really need help with. I am reading your suggestions and not all of it makes sense to me yet, but I am sure with some practice and time, I will get it! I am surprised that the 85mm lens can capture such great action shots. I guess I thought you needed a zoom lens to get the action.

[sam ellis]

The 85mm is great as seen here, you do need to be fairly close to the action .

I did a little test today on my d200 and I will upload the images but man I get no where NEAR as "noiseless" as you Kim.

It starts to get very noisy at around 800

[SAHMom]

Sam,
I'm not sure if I had the D200 if I'd make the upgrade either! I was just long overdue for an upgrade and I liked what I was seeing with the D300 so took the jump!
And yes, those are with no noiseware run at all.
Here's a few test shots I did when I first got it. Definitely pushing the limits, but wanted to see how it'd perform in the worst of settings.
These were at night, in my dungeon of a bedroom... poorly lit with overhead lighting. Settings on the photos. Not ideal photos, but these were better than I would have got at 400 ISO with the D70s.

[SAHMom]

couple other random samples

[elliottsurf2]

Kim,

I cannot see any of the photos that you are posting. I get a little box with a red x in it. Do you know if I need to refresh my browser? Change the settings? Maybe this is a question for Ms. Cassie...Cassie are you out there?

[HeidiKnight]

Delete your temporary internet files and see if that helps - I can see them all.

Kim, I am very impressed! I am going to do some more thinking and financial planning - I really do need to upgrade and I love what I'm seeing with the 300. I love that you can take shots indoors - and at night - that turn out so well. With the 70, I am not able to get anything worth a darn in those conditions.

[sam ellis]

these are amazing..... and even one at 6400 iso ... wow.

[sam ellis]

Heidi.... I see you have the lightsphere... cloudy and clear. which do you think better as I am about to try one .

[HeidiKnight]

I use the cloudy more often.