getting off auto

[kari]

Ok - So I think I am determined to learn how to shoot off auto and really use my dSLR...

First - do I really need to learn? How will it make my simple everyday life shots better?

Second - how do you recommend learning? class? online or live? books? websites?

[bluelemur01]

hi Kari, going off auto is AWESOME! (from a sometimes-professional photograher, here!) Here are my thoughts:

1. At first, your pictures will get worse. Sometimes, WAY worse. But as you learn & improve your skills, they will get "as good" as your auto pictures, and then...BETTER! Depending on how fast you learn and how much time you are able to commit to it, this may take several weeks or several months.

2. You don't really NEED to go off auto. If you're happy with your photos now, then that's fine.

3. By going off auto, you will be able to control many things in your photos that were previously left up to the camera to decide. For example, many portraits look best with a shallow depth of field. This is when your subject is sharp and clear, and everything behind them is pleasantly blurred out. If you shoot in manual, you can control the aperture and get your background to blur. (In this case, you would use a wide aperture to achieve the shallow depth of field look.) You can also decide whether you want a motion shot to look like motion blur, like soft running water, or whether you want to freeze the motion and see individual droplets of water. (You would do this by changing your shutter speed.)

The reason I say that photos get WORSE temporarily (only temporarily!) is because you have to do a lot of playing around with your camera settings, and do a lot of practice and trial/error to learn what works & how to achieve it. Yes, there are defined things to do to get the shots you want. A very blurry background is achieved with a very wide aperture, like a f/1.8 or f/2.5 or similar. However, knowing where to place your subject to ensure there's no backlighting, knowing how far to stand, knowing where to set your focus point, knowing whether or not to use fill flash...these things take time and vary a bit with each individual situation.

About learning: I'd say to check your local community college or parks & rec division of the city. THey often have continuing education or "fun only" classes for adults. (I used to teach at my local parks/rec and it was fun!) I also LOVE reading photo books and just searching the web for tutorials. I'll look up a few fave books & sites & post in a second message.

good luck!
J

[shellb]

For me I so needed to learn. I learned right here at DD. I joined the DD-Picture Of The Day group over at Flickr. It's free and there are lots of DD girls who are willing to give you advice and answer any questions.

Also Katrina Kennedy (DD POTD host) gives chats here so be on the look out for them.

[Jen D]

Personally I learned by practice and I still read everything I can get my hands on. I don't have the link on my laptop but Katrina posted a great site that weekly gives photography tips. You can search all sorts of situations and get advice on settings and such. It is great. I will try to post it if someone else does... I know she has shared it a few times. The flickr group is also great. I haven't been able to post my work their but I have been doing the 365 project. It makes you get your camera out and you get better with every shot =)

[audrey77]

I am cutting and pasting this from another post:

Read the pink box on this page... It's really easy:
Manual Mode

[deanie]

I agree-the more you use you camera the more you understand how it works. I started doing a photo a day last year, and have been doing the 365 project this year as well. Everything Jennifer said is so true! You begin to understand how fun capturing a creatively great exposure is. Check out Bryan Peterson's book, "Understanding Exposure", anything by Scott Kelby and just read all the photography threads on the board. There is tons!! of information there. And join us at Flickr.

[katrinak]

I think I learned best/most by taking photos EVERYDAY with the help of Peterson and Kelby's books as well. The link Jen mentioned is to digital photography school. They send a daily email with technique help. Do join us at the Flickr group (pink F below). Low pressure, supportive group to help you achieve what you want.

And to answer your question why? When you move off of auto you can have more creative control over your camera. You can correct for funky lighting that your camera doesn't know how to handle (like back lighting) and you can use all of the buttons on your camera to their full potential.

I'll be teaching a class over at Debbie Hodge's website and will have a little something over here to help you very very soon!

[kari]

Originally Posted by katrinak

I'll be teaching a class over at Debbie Hodge's website and will have a little something over here to help you very very soon!

This is sweet news!!!!! There was a class I wanted to take that started next week in my town, but, I was struggling with giving up 2 hours a night away from home... I am sooo excited about this option!!!!!

Thanks so much everyone for all the info! (Keep it coming )

[dugarner]

Originally Posted by bluelemur01

1. At first, your pictures will get worse. Sometimes, WAY worse.

The reason I say that photos get WORSE temporarily (only temporarily!) is because you have to do a lot of playing around with your camera settings, and do a lot of practice and trial/error to learn what works & how to achieve it.

Umm, I'll second that. My pictures fell/fall under the WAY WORSE category. I was really frustrated with my dSLR but decided to stick with it. I am now approaching acceptibility, or a level I was happy with when I had my P&S. Also, since I am becoming more comfortable with dialing in all my own settings, I don't feel guilty about falling back on auto when I'm in a situation where I know the camera will do a great job on its own (like today, out in the sun at the park. auto works just fine in full sunlight outside.).

The great thing about digital is you can shoot thousands of frames without cost. I literally take (on a good day) 100-200 frames, or if I'm at an event, maybe 500, and maybe 1 or 2 is worth keeping. I'm happy with that 1 or 2, though!

Good luck!

Sarah

[psulions21]

I agree with everyone. Manual is so much better. It does take a lot of practice and it can be very frustrating in the beginning, but once you get the hang of it you will definitely see a difference in your pictures. The quality of picture you can get is so much better. The one piece of advice I can give is practice, practice, practice.

[huddlestonh]

I took a very basic beginner class on a paper scrapping site last year and it really helped all the terms make sense. Now, I read (when I can) and practice. I rarely use auto mode anymore unless I'm trying to capture something quick, because it takes me a little while to get it set the way I want it. I still have lots to learn.

[LisaD]

Originally Posted by shellb

For me I so needed to learn. I learned right here at DD. I joined the DD-Picture Of The Day group over at Flickr. It's free and there are lots of DD girls who are willing to give you advice and answer any questions.

Also Katrina Kennedy (DD POTD host) gives chats here so be on the look out for them.

I didn't even know about this.

Kari, great question BTW. I'm also just now trying to go off auto. I just read xti for dummies. But realize this isn't going to cut it. I need more. then i'll go back and read it. - maybe a little more will sink in then.

thanks to everyone for all the great info.

[geekgirl415]

I'm giggling over this... I'm off of "auto"... i use portrait, sport, night.. heh heh...

Actually, it's timely since i've been wanting to take it up to the next level, and find myself drooling over good bokeh or flash lighting, and dreaming about a prime lens that will allow me to take low light shots... I just wish my DSLR was as easy to take everywhere as my P&S. I didn't know about Katrina's chats so that's good to know. Anyone have any tips on carrying the DSLR (or getting used to it?)?

[dugarner]

Originally Posted by geekgirl415

I'm giggling over this... I'm off of "auto"... i use portrait, sport, night.. heh heh...

Actually, it's timely since i've been wanting to take it up to the next level, and find myself drooling over good bokeh or flash lighting, and dreaming about a prime lens that will allow me to take low light shots... I just wish my DSLR was as easy to take everywhere as my P&S. I didn't know about Katrina's chats so that's good to know. Anyone have any tips on carrying the DSLR (or getting used to it?)?

You have the Sony Alpha 100? I have the 200, it's easy to carry in a small camera bag. I just have to choose which lens I'm bringing (until I can afford a larger bag). I still use the bag I had for my Fuji point and shoot, which was larger and heavier than my Sony. Go figure!

I am used to being the family sherpa, I carry all our gear, so a camera bag doesn't bother me. Having the option of getting the great pictures anywhere outweighs (no pun intended!) the frustration of lugging a heavier camera around. But that's just me.

Also, if you don't mind a used lens or older lens, the Minolta AF 49mm 1.7 is under $150 at many camera sites. We can use any Minolta AF lens and it will communicate with the Alpha series just like Sony lenses will (but you might want to double-check, I trust my source, but I don't trust my understanding of the information I was given!). The guy at the store where I bought my camera said that the lower-end Sony lenses aren't as good as the lower-end "generics" (Tamron and Sigma), but once you get into the $1500-$2000 range, the Sony lenses are worth buying.

So his advice was to go with the Minolta, Tammy, or Siggy lenses for everyday macro, fast, and telephoto.

We cannot mount any Canon lenses at all, the mounts are too short for an adapter. I've never checked on adapting for Nikon lenses, but for now, I'm going to go with Minolta. The Sony bayonet mount is unusual, so if you ever buy a Tammy or Siggy, you need to make sure it has the bayonet mount.

You probably know this already, but I'm always excited to see another Alphaite.

Hope this helps!

Sarah

[geekgirl415]

Originally Posted by dugarner

You have the Sony Alpha 100? I have the 200, it's easy to carry in a small camera bag. I just have to choose which lens I'm bringing (until I can afford a larger bag). I still use the bag I had for my Fuji point and shoot, which was larger and heavier than my Sony. Go figure!

I am used to being the family sherpa, I carry all our gear, so a camera bag doesn't bother me. Having the option of getting the great pictures anywhere outweighs (no pun intended!) the frustration of lugging a heavier camera around. But that's just me.

Also, if you don't mind a used lens or older lens, the Minolta AF 49mm 1.7 is under $150 at many camera sites. We can use any Minolta AF lens and it will communicate with the Alpha series just like Sony lenses will (but you might want to double-check, I trust my source, but I don't trust my understanding of the information I was given!). The guy at the store where I bought my camera said that the lower-end Sony lenses aren't as good as the lower-end "generics" (Tamron and Sigma), but once you get into the $1500-$2000 range, the Sony lenses are worth buying.


Hope this helps!

Sarah

OMG! Thank you!! I saw you wrote about getting the 49mm lens cheap, and it sent me on a quest, but i found nothing! I know they told us Minolta was a match when we bought it, but it didn't register completely til your post above so now I'm back on my quest. At this point, i just want that lens, used will do! This really helps- thank you!!

As far as carrying it- i think i just need to get over carrying a larger bag and not my cute, little Harvey's seatbelt bag purse. I will miss my little purse...

[Britgirl]

About getting used to carrying your DSLR? just carry it. like your handbag {purse} it becomes second nature. I literally pick mine up like my keys before I step out. I carry it 'as is' no case, no bag, just my camera and my nifty fifty lens. Unless I purposely go out for a photo shoot then I take another lens too.
take photos everywhere. in every light, in every context. You havent failed if they arent great when you download them, as long as you can see the difference between the settings you are trying.
And when you very first start attempting to 'learn your buttons' dont try and grasp it all at once. Start small. put it on P instead of auto and try adjusting your white balance, until you know where and when which white balance will work.
then move onto AV, etc etc,
I absolutely promise you once you click and get what each button does you will never go back to auto. Auto is like riding a bus compared to driving yourself The bus is nice and easy but you have to go where it takes you and when, but driving yourself is however and whenever you want.... does that make sense or am I sounding crazy here ??!

[Aino]

Originally Posted by Britgirl

does that make sense or am I sounding crazy here ??!

Makes perfect sense.

You have to get a good sense of Exposure (relationship light/aperture/shutter speed/ ISO) ....
I found these articles very useful.
Read up on a few essentials. Start in P mode and move to A. And then onwards.
And shoot shoot shoot. In all conditions.

[kari]

you guys are great....

such good advice!!!

I like the idea of just first remembering to take it with me at all times....

tomorrow may be hard running in a race... but after that, I'll have it with me and start trying!!!!

[katrinak]

I'm with Mel on taking it everywhere! I wear it across my chest like a regular accessory In fact this morning Ian and I went for coffee, walked out wearing my camera and was a block away before I realized I had left my purse! But NO WAY did I leave my camera

I think it is good to get in a routine when you pick your camera up.

1. What mode do I want to be in?
2. What's my ISO
3. What's my aperture
4. What's my shutter speed
5. Ready to go...

(of course with my routine, I'm assuming I'm shooting in RAW, but it wouldn't hurt to put that in as a step too!)

[LauraBean]

I really like the idea of just carrying the camera, naked and strapped across my chest. I get hung up on, What if I want a different lens? What about my flash? But no way can I lug the whole camera bag everywhere. I really want to start taking it more places--thanks for the encouragement, Mel and Katrina!

[geekgirl415]

I agree, it's a new mindset but it makes total sense- just wear it like a scarf! Mel, i love your analogy about the bus vs car. I played around with my manual settings last night and figured out how to change aperature, set shutter speed- but need to break out the guide to figure out white balance!!! Thanks for the thread/little push- i'm sure it helps a lot of us Auto girls...

[donitab]

The key is to learn it in steps as most suggested - take it a little at a time, get to understand it, then add another step. I'm really getting very good at manual, but now I am ready to do RAW - (a little scared though!). But, now that I understand manual, I see the NEED for RAW & it gives me the courage to step out & learn.

When I first started, I only used manual to pratice (a little practice EVERY day - on my dog, on the plants outside, my furniture, kids - whatever I could find to shoot!), but when I went to a function I would revert to auto just to make sure I was getting good pictures - after a couple of weeks practicing everyday, I began to take a few shots manual at functions & then revert to auto just in case I didn't like my manual shots. Pretty soon, I realized I wasn't using auto hardly at all & just stuck with manual - wouldn't go back!

One step at a time & you don't ever stop learning, there is always something new - and don't underestimate your camera's manual - while pretty dry reading, you would be surprised at what you pick up if you sit and read a section every month or two.

Good luck!

[iUma]

I must say that this thread kept me company during a torturous day of air travel...trying to get back to Bham from Maine with an emergency about my father. I couldn't post but could read. I wanted a chance to say that IT'S NOT THE CAMERA!!! We've had an ongoing talk here about how others say your camera does great photos....on the Photo chat last weekend Sam was talking about that....I chimed in that with my new camera I can see such a difference that maybe it WAS the camera! Deanie replied in a second that no, the camera doesn't have an eye, crop or edit....and I wish she would repeat the actual statement....and I am here to say that the camera also doesn't know how to work itself on MANUAL!! SO glad to read all these encouraging comments because....it ain't the camera!! And I have So much to learn!!
Love it here, though...

[LisaD]

After reading the dummies book, I put mine more often on P. Glad to hear that I might be doing ok in my learning curve. Just need to push it up a notch.

[katrinak]

You sound like you are doing great Lisa!

I've found that I have these crazy peaks and valleys. One day it all "clicks" and I feel so confident and love my results. Then I try something new and suddenly I'm frustrated and feel like I'll never get it. But when I do, wow, I love that feeling!

Keep at it ladies. Learn little bits. Experiment. Ask questions. We'll figure it out together!

(and we'll all come here and vent when someone says, I need to get a good camera like yours to take photos like you do...I just heard it again last weekend and just wanted to hand my camera over and say, go ahead, give it a shot! ...but I was nice and smiled and agreed!)

[dugarner]

I always like to fall back on my music analogy when I get discouraged about my entry-level equipment. A mediocre student on piano will sound "better" playing a Steinway than a Kimball. But a mediocre student isn't going to sound more advanced, just a little more refined than they did on the crappy piano. It's still the same level of artistry, just a little more tolerable to the ears. I grew up playing a Kimball, and I'd do what I could to get the best music out of it, but when I went to my lessons and played on the Yamaha grand, it just sounded better. I could do things on the keys I just couldn't do on the Kimball.

With cameras, it is the same thing. While a great camera doesn't improve your eye, and won't do the composing for you, there are things to be said about the forgiveness and quality of better equipment. There are things I just can't do with my dSLR that would make some okay pictures great.

On the other hand, I can tell myself to push my equipment to the maximum of its performance, and be as good of a photographer as I can be with what I've got. I get comments and looks-down-the-nose from people with fancier cameras (that's a dSLR? it doesn't have as many buttons as mine does), but hey, at the end of the day, my pictures are off my camera, on my computer, on a scrapbook page, and ready to be printed. And theirs are probably . . . on their spare card sitting in their desk drawer?

So it's true that a great camera isn't necessarily going to make someone a great photographer, but I sure wish someday I could trade in my Kimball for a Steinway.

[katrinak]

Originally Posted by dugarner

So it's true that a great camera isn't necessarily going to make someone a great photographer, but I sure wish someday I could trade in my Kimball for a Steinway.

As would I, as would I.

You take beautiful photos and in 50 years the important thing is going to be that the photos exist, no one will be asking about the camera!

[mum2gnt]

Here's my little piece! If you have a good quality camera (most brand new to 1 year old ones are) then all the auto programmes will be great and perfect for everyday. That's what they were designed for. I have a Cannon 30D for example which is I believe over the borderline for a professional camera but I can let the camera do all the hard work most of the time. There is nothing more annoying than taking heaps of photos of one event/action/moment in manual mode and then finding they are all blurred!!! But, equally you can take a far better image in manual mode as you can set your own settings. But you can do so much in Photoshop / Lightroom nowadays that it probably makes very little difference to be honest! Well not true really but you know what I mean! The better the photo the less editing time it takes!
BUT......all this said, it is a great hobbie. You can have some great fun. I did an evening course just for DSLR and then an advanced course and now I do professional photography. one of the main advantages of doing it via a course rather than a book is obviously the practical advice. We were sent outside to take photos of lines or the moon or the light on the building (it was evening so almost dark!) but weren't allowed to use flash and in the advanced course it covered tripod use, lenses and open exposure, bracketing, etc. Half of which no one ever uses I am sure! But we were also given homework each night and that was the fun part! The topics were weather (like leaves blowing (movement) and sunsets (ISO), water (sparkles (light/dark), etc. Others were textures, life, a child or pet, the beach (so very high light as we have white white sand here!) and buildings. Oh and another was wildlife - insects (so macro). I took photos of stuff I would never dream of! And they look so so good! he also got us to look at the composition - like grandpa holding grandchild's hand - to focus on the hands but to also focus on the size difference and age so you had to think of how you could make that stand out, etc. They gave heaps of tips too - like coming down to a child's level. Lie on the ground to take a photo. If there is a line to have that on the photo to draw the eye to the object (person, etc)........anyway, I am going on and on! But if you ahve the time and the willingness to try then I would do it - but never give up the auto mode on a good camera. You might want to learn with a friend too as you can go on mini shoots together - like to the local woodland and take photos of trees, etc.....sorry going on again! Oh it's almost midnight must go to sleep! Got start of soccer season tomorrow (that's where sport mode comes into play and a HUGE lens!) You can have some great fun with lenses like fisheye!
GoodnighT and good luck!

Suzie

[geekgirl415]

Originally Posted by donitab

The key is to learn it in steps as most suggested - take it a little at a time, get to understand it, then add another step. I'm really getting very good at manual, but now I am ready to do RAW - (a little scared though!). But, now that I understand manual, I see the NEED for RAW & it gives me the courage to step out & learn.

When I first started, I only used manual to pratice (a little practice EVERY day - on my dog, on the plants outside, my furniture, kids - whatever I could find to shoot!), but when I went to a function I would revert to auto just to make sure I was getting good pictures - after a couple of weeks practicing everyday, I began to take a few shots manual at functions & then revert to auto just in case I didn't like my manual shots. Pretty soon, I realized I wasn't using auto hardly at all & just stuck with manual - wouldn't go back!

One step at a time & you don't ever stop learning, there is always something new - and don't underestimate your camera's manual - while pretty dry reading, you would be surprised at what you pick up if you sit and read a section every month or two.

Good luck!

Very good idea. I was at a birthday party last night and was torn between trying to do manual and actually getting good shots. I wound up back on auto just because I didn't want to make my friends wait "in pose" while I figured it out!
It just seems so hard and technical right now.

[Amy L]

I love Bryan Peterson's book, Understanding Exposure. Early in the book he explains how to take a picture in manual. His point is that then you can officially say you have done it and you have gotten over that hump. I have found that taking lessons from a photographer has been so helpful. Katrina is an excellent teacher, so her class sounds like a good bet! I love manual!